Cardinal Arthur Roche is one of four English cardinals currently serving – a record high for the country. As the youngest among them, Cardinal Roche, 74, holds significant influence as Prefect of the Dicastery for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, and as a key adviser to Pope Francis.
In this exclusive interview, marking the Golden Jubilee of his ordination, Cardinal Roche reflects on his five decades of priesthood and distinguished service to the Church. He shares his insights on the Synod of Synodality, discussing its significance for the Church’s future, and addresses the pressing challenges of liturgical formation in the contemporary context.
The cardinal also offers his perspective on the Traditional Latin Mass, considering its role in the modern Church and underlining the essential need for unity in worship practices. Throughout the conversation, he speaks with his characteristic humility and pastoral sensitivity, offering a rare glimpse into the experiences and convictions of one of the UK’s most senior prelates. His reflections span a lifetime of service, engaging with the Church’s past, present and future with clarity and conviction.
<em>CH</em>: <strong>Your Eminence, this year marks the golden jubilee of your ordination. Could you tell us about your journey to the priesthood and how you have served the Lord in this ministry over the past 50 years?</strong>
<em>CR</em>: From a very early age, I had an inkling that I had a vocation. Whenever I went to Mass, I felt a deep sense of happiness. Back in the 1950s, whenever we passed a church, we would go in to say hello to our Lord or make the sign of the cross if we were unable to enter. I would often go in on my way to school in the morning and felt real contentment, peace and happiness. I received Communion at the age of seven and became an altar boy immediately. After that, I served Mass almost every day.
As time went on, my vocation became much clearer. I offered myself to the Diocese of Leeds after initially being very drawn to the Cistercians at Mount St Bernard's. My fondness for that community and their way of life remains with me, and I try to return to them every year.
After a series of assessments, I was sent to the English College of Valladolid, which was an extraordinary experience. I had no idea where Valladolid was – it sounded a little like Vladimir in those days. We had a devotion to Our Lady of Vladimir because we were praying for the conversion of Russia.
It was a wonderful experience. The college has a rich Catholic history from a time of great difficulty in England. The 26 martyrs from the college were a constant inspiration to us.
In those days, when you went to Valladolid, you stayed there for three years before being able to return home. We came back only once in the six years before ordination. It was a very formative period, being cheek by jowl with 30 other men, all preparing for the priesthood from different parts of the country. We received an excellent education from the Augustinian Fathers, and the college was attached to the Jesuits’ University of Comillas.
I returned home in 1975 and was ordained a priest by Bishop William Gordon Wheeler. I was appointed to the mining town of Barnsley in South Yorkshire, which was a wonderful experience. The people there were good and hardworking, most of the men working down the pit.
Later, I became Bishop Wheeler's secretary until 1982. That year, I was asked to take responsibility for the papal visit of John Paul II to York. It was a great event; over 250,000 people gathered on the Knavesmire, the racecourse in York, a site where martyrs were once put to death. The experience was a wonderful learning curve in my life. Afterward, I was appointed to Leeds Cathedral, located at the centre of the city.
I believe we were probably the only cathedral church outside Westminster to provide daily confessions for two hours each lunchtime, and there was never a pause. There were five of us in the cathedral – five priests – who were constantly busy in the confessionals at lunchtime.
People came from as far north as Scotland and as far south as Birmingham because they knew that Confessions were available daily and that anonymity was possible. Reflecting on the sort of Confessions we heard, that option for anonymity was very important. It was a humbling ministry.
Following that, I became a parish priest and then financial secretary to the Diocese of Leeds – a role I did not feel equipped for. Later, the Bishop asked me to study moral theology in Rome. I have often found that I have not always felt equal to the tasks given to me. However, I have always accepted them, even with uncertainty, and profited from each experience. The Lord supplies what is needed and gives you the ability to cope and even enjoy the work.
I returned from Rome in 1995 to serve as general secretary of the bishops’ conference for four years. I was immensely impressed by how bishops represented the concerns of their dioceses effectively and with a high level of charity. If a point was made during a discussion, it was never reinforced by anyone else; it remained on the table for consideration.
It was a shock when Pope St John Paul II appointed me auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Westminster. Within a year, I was asked to go to Leeds as Coadjutor Bishop due to Bishop David Konstant’s health issues. I became the ordinary of the diocese in 2004 when Bishop David’s condition worsened. I served as ordinary for 10 years until 2012, when Benedict XVI asked me to become secretary of the then Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments in Rome. It felt like a divorce to leave my diocese; I had no idea what life in the Roman Curia would be like.
I had the privilege of serving under two prefects – Cardinal Antonio Cañizares Llovera from Spain and Cardinal Robert Sarah from Guinea. They were two very different people, but both admirable.
<em>CH</em>: <strong>One of the most recent and important happenings in the Vatican and the life of the Church has been the Synod of Synodality. What are your reflections on the process?</strong>
<em>CR</em>: I would never have thought of synodality in the way it has now been conceived because of Pope Francis. It is an immense gift to the Church because I believe it teaches us to listen very carefully to people, rather than simply becoming aggressive apologists.
The process begins with everyone saying what they want to share, interspersed with periods of prayer but without interruption. The second round is not about repeating what you said initially but about expressing what you heard or appreciated from the first round – both from the spoken words and what was received in prayer.
This approach fosters listening and thinking at a very deep level. It was interesting that, in those discussions, we all quite easily reached a statement that everyone at the table was happy with. I thought that was remarkable.
The process reminded me of my experience with the English and Welsh bishops back in 1995 and 1996. They spoke with a very high degree of charity – never repeating, lobbying, forcing opinions, being aggressive, or being jealous of their own views. It seems to me that synodality has been practised in a very real sense in some aspects of the Church's life.
Now, in a new age where we are dealing with conflicts and troubling opinions that pose challenges to the future of the world, we need to remain focused on Christ and truly imbibe His teachings so that we can move forward with immense respect for others.
<em>CH</em>: <strong>As prefect of the Dicastery for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, what do you think are some of the main challenges you see to sacramental discipline in this current period of the Church?</strong>
<em>CR</em>: There are two sections of the dicastery: one is liturgy, and the other is sacraments. The sacramental side deals with situations where something illicit or invalid has been celebrated. The disciplinary side is very different from the liturgical side.
The liturgical side involves assisting in the reform of the Second Vatican Council, as outlined in <em>Praedicate Evangelium</em>, the apostolic constitution on the Roman Curia, and supporting the bishops in this regard.
I would say that the biggest challenge I have seen is a deep lack of formation regarding the liturgy in recent years, coupled with a growing tendency for individuals to believe they can worship in whatever manner they choose, rather than within the context of the Church. We can only worship as a Church – there is no other way. Worship is given to us by apostolic authority and through Christ.
I see formation as essential. Without it, we witness either misinterpretations of the liturgy or its use as entertainment rather than the worship of God.
Pope Francis has been particularly concerned about liturgical formation. Four years ago, under Cardinal Sarah, he asked the congregation to examine the question of formation. Following this, he wrote the apostolic letter <em>Desiderio Desideravi</em>, which I often refer to as the Pope's love letter to the liturgy, addressed to the entire people of God.
In it, he urges them once again to study carefully what the Church requires of them in its liturgy and how it should be undertaken by the community as a great act of love for the Lord.
The liturgy is not a personal possession given by the Church. Priests should respect that – they are servants of the liturgy, not its creators. Cutting corners, omitting parts, or reframing the liturgy is not my responsibility as a priest, cardinal or bishop.
My responsibility is to celebrate the liturgy as given, in faithfulness to Christ. I believe this point needs to be strongly emphasised today. In fairness, in my experience, the vast majority of priests do precisely that.
When the liturgy is mistaken for entertainment, it never truly works and often comes across as shallow to people.
<em>CH</em>: <strong>One of the phenomena that has become apparent in the modern Church is the devotion that young people have to the Traditional Latin Mass, the 1962 Roman Missal promulgated by Pope John XXIII. What advice would you give to those who want to remain faithful members of the Church and love the Latin Mass but find themselves restricted in attending?</strong>
<em>CR</em>: Of course, it is good that people want to be part of the Church, and there is no reason why they cannot. There is nothing wrong with attending the Mass celebrated with the 1962 missal. That has been accepted since the time of Pope St John Paul II, Pope Benedict and now Pope Francis.
What Pope Francis said in <em>Traditionis Custodes</em> is that it is not the norm. For very good reasons, the Church, through conciliar legislation, decided to move away from what had become an overly elaborate form of celebrating the Mass.
When I was at school, I used to serve Mass, and the priest would say to me: “Remember, boy, it's 20 minutes, amice to amice.” What he meant was that as soon as he put the amice [liturgical vestment] around his neck, I was to start counting the minutes until he took it off at the end of Mass. If, by chance, he reached the last Gospel by 15 minutes, I had to pull the back of his chasuble. It was a sort of scruple, I suppose, but something very different from what people experience in the Extraordinary Form today.
One of the things that has been very interesting to me is observing this situation worldwide. The numbers devoted to the Traditional Latin Mass are, in reality, quite small, but some of the groups are quite clamorous. They are more noticeable because they make their voices heard.
Another important point is that one of the major reforms of the Second Vatican Council was in <em>Dei Verbum</em>, which recognised that the scriptures needed to become more and more part of the daily diet of every Catholic Christian.
In the lectionary from the <em>Novus Ordo</em>, there is a three-year cycle for Sundays and a two-year cycle for weekday readings. There is a much lower percentage of scriptural readings in the 1962 missal than there are in the newer missal.
What interests me is why people get hot under the collar about others celebrating the Tridentine Mass. I think this has been a mistake. Bishop Wheeler, of the Diocese of Leeds, insisted that a Holy Mass be celebrated in Latin according to the <em>Novus Ordo</em> at least once every Sunday in every deanery. That showed considerable wisdom.
From my perspective, the celebration of the Eucharist, in whichever missal you are using, should be very noble and marked by noble simplicity.
I often hear people say, “Cardinal Roche is against the Latin Mass.” Well, if they only knew that most days I celebrate Mass in Latin because it is the common language for all of us here. It is the <em>Novus Ordo</em> Mass in Latin. I was trained as an altar boy until the age of 20, serving the Tridentine Form.
<em>CH</em>: <strong>Your Eminence, thank you for your time, and please be assured of our prayers for you and your office.</strong>
<em>CR</em>: Thank you, and God bless.<br><br><em>Photo: As a newly elevated cardinal, Monsignor Arthur Roche attends an events following a consistory for the creation of 20 new cardinals by the Pope at Vatican, 27 August 2022. (Photo by ALBERTO PIZZOLI/AFP via Getty Images.)</em>
